From a comment on one of my posts:
I always thought the Deen was black and white (lol), y’know since it’s day is as clear as it’s night etc.
The Deen I’m upon is crystal clear, full of yaqeen, looks like a lot of ppl here have major shubuhaat.
Let me give my Explantion
1. ibn Taymiyah was right - he was white, he was day
2. I follow Ibn Taymiyah
3. I have full clarity
5. Ibn Hajar and Imam An Nawawi were black, they were night, they were wrong.
6. Anyone who follows them are on blackness
7. Ibn Hajar, Imam An Nawawi and others have ‘major’ Shubhuhat.
Got to love the Salafis who love these guys, follow them, need them and their books - yet consider them black, and filled with Major Shubuhat.
At least the soofies can honestly not even need and/or rely upon the works of Ibn Taymiyah, so while they consider him deviant, its not like they secretly have a crush on him, and have his books on their shelf . (What Salafi DOES NOT WISH, he could sit and kiss the feets of Imam An Nawawi, the ’shubhuat’ filled / non crystal clear muslim).
Sas
October 21st, 2006 at 7:50 pm
Awesome, a blog entry about one of my comments!
“Deen is black and white” The keyword is: Deen.
Sas did you know that scholars make mistakes??
So what if one or two of them went off a little
What does that have to do with it, c’mon, pls.
October 21st, 2006 at 7:53 pm
Check Abul-Fadl’s post re: the afore mentioned scholars and that they had branches/similarities but not the principles of the people who are deemed to be “off” za manhag.
October 21st, 2006 at 10:24 pm
why can’t we love ibn tayimiah ibn hajr and an-nawawi at the same time?
October 22nd, 2006 at 6:57 pm
So, I take it what you ‘really meant’ is the deen is white, black, and a little bit ‘off’
You and Ibn Taymiyah can be white
Ibn Arabi and the others can be black.
I’ll be a little bit ‘off’ =)
Sas
October 22nd, 2006 at 7:41 pm
Ah, no. What I ‘really meant’ (although obvious) is the Deen is clear and perfect, no holes, nothing.
It’s scholars that err since they are not ma’soom and we don’t follow them like they’re our rabbis.
October 22nd, 2006 at 7:41 pm
and this coming from a smoker! ha!
October 22nd, 2006 at 7:45 pm
Allaah revealed one monotheistic understanding too, He did not author all these different opinions k?!
If a scholar, student, layman, superman, whatever falls into doubt or err then we call it what it is
October 22nd, 2006 at 9:12 pm
salaamalaykum
you bring interesting points brother…..
but the Prophet (SAW) told us there are grey matters as well……..
you dont want to be int he gray matters…be a zaahid, leave everythign concern yourself with the dunya that helps you come closer to Allah and ibaadat which shoudl be doen upont he sunnah which also helps you come closer to Allah.
my advice, take it or leave it
October 22nd, 2006 at 9:24 pm
Alhamdullillah I am in Hosuton, things actually get done…..
October 22nd, 2006 at 10:55 pm
Any community which already has a majority ‘group’ gets things done.
The soofies in cali also, get things done.
The sheeah in Iran ‘get things done’ (id say they get things done in lots of places).
If the deen is black and white and that is your argument for making thst everythig is clear in your mind.
Lets try something, and be totally honest with me and and tell me off the top of your head what the proof is that the names and attributes of Allah have to be taken by their literal meaning, and that you know it.
There is complete agreement, that one may not make taqlid in Aqidah, and since I am very confused about this - and you have ‘certaintiy’ and no shubuhat, I believe you also then are not making taqlid on Ibn Taymiyah since that would be haram - what is the proof that we must take the names and attributes literally.
Maybe you can explain it perfectly to me - (I am being hopeful that there is a simple straw or something which if added, or pulled will make everything clear).
Sas
October 22nd, 2006 at 10:56 pm
Any community which already has a majority ‘group’ gets things done.
The soofies in cali also, get things done.
The sheeah in Iran ‘get things done’ (id say they get things done in lots of places).
If the deen is black and white and that is your argument for making thst everythig is clear in your mind.
Lets try something, and be totally honest with me and and tell me off the top of your head what the proof is that the names and attributes of Allah have to be taken by their literal meaning, and that you know it.
There is complete agreement, that one may not make taqlid in Aqidah, and since I am very confused about this - and you have ‘certaintiy’ and no shubuhat, I believe you also then are not making taqlid on Ibn Taymiyah since that would be haram - what is the proof that we must take the names and attributes literally.
Maybe you can explain it perfectly to me - (I am being hopeful that there is a simple straw or something which if added, or pulled will make everything clear).
Sas
October 22nd, 2006 at 10:56 pm
Any community which already has a majority ‘group’ gets things done.
The soofies in cali also, get things done.
The sheeah in Iran ‘get things done’ (id say they get things done in lots of places).
If the deen is black and white and that is your argument for making thst everythig is clear in your mind.
Lets try something, and be totally honest with me and and tell me off the top of your head what the proof is that the names and attributes of Allah have to be taken by their literal meaning, and that you know it.
There is complete agreement, that one may not make taqlid in Aqidah, and since I am very confused about this - and you have ‘certaintiy’ and no shubuhat, I believe you also then are not making taqlid on Ibn Taymiyah since that would be haram - what is the proof that we must take the names and attributes literally.
Maybe you can explain it perfectly to me - (I am being hopeful that there is a simple straw or something which if added, or pulled will make everything clear).
Sas
October 23rd, 2006 at 12:38 am
wow you seem to be really serious about this bro, i come to thsi conclusionbecaus eyou made thre sonsecutive posts in this issue one after another…i thought you always joked around….but if you are serious about discussing this, I can either discuss this here or you can email me or ill email you inshaAllah. But the first thing i need you to tell me is that what proof would you like….I myself didnt take ibn taymiyya as a guide or a schoalr to depend on when i decided to come to a conclusion )or supposed conclusion) in this issue, it was later that I realized that my conclusion even though void of the positions of Ibn Taymiyya, agreed with almost everythign i have read and heard that Ibn Taymiyya said. And I thank that one thread in AlMaghrib forums where alHarrani took part in for this. Alhamdulillah.
So sas, if you are really serious about this i will continue, if youa rent i dont see any reasont o continue inshaAllah. ANd please tell me what type of proof would you like or all of the following:
1. A shar’i proof which would include the Quran, Sunnah, Sahaaba’s understanding
2. A proof(s) from the statements of the salaf
3. intellectual proofs
4. Historical Proofs
5. Logical Proofs
6. Spiritual proofs
7. And obviously our fitra
or a combination of all these. Different proofs usually please different minds.
To end I jsut wanted to quote the statement of a scholar of philosophy who freed himself from the philosophical approach and positions of the philosophers on his death bed, and he said on his death bed, “Know that I held such and such to be the creed I believe in but today I lay in my bed dying upon the beliefs of the old women of Quraysh”
Indeed I pray that I and the muslims die upon the fitra that Allah created me, and the fitra that humanity and laymuslims are upon, the creed of the salaf as salih which is the creed of the old women of Quraysh.
May Allah have Mercy.
Allah Knows Best
October 23rd, 2006 at 2:39 am
Yes sir, I am very much interested.
Lets start with something that can make me a kaafir according to the Salafi School of thought, and go from there - since obviosuly that is the most important.
Is asking Ar Rasul, Sallallalau Alayhi wa Sallam at his grave to intercede for us, kufr al akbar.
According to Ibn Taymiyah, Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab - and their followers it is kufr al akbar by ijmaa
Unless you are not salafi (i have no idea now), that should be the premise - if we already take it away frombeing kufr to just bid’a - then - well, we can refer to other scholars as they may have already disagreed on wether its bid’a or ok.
But for now, the main point of contention id like to have is if its kufr al akbar - and if it can be proven beyond a doubt that its kufr.
The only proof for me personally, is:
1. Quran and Sunnah
2. Ijmaaa of the Companions (in this case, id be ok with anything from any of the companions just to learn)
3. Ijmaa in general, but someone um a lil closer to the salaf then Shaikh Ul Islam
The rest can come way later - once I have adopted / believed in a view.
If you do not mind, I would like any thing you bring that is Salafi be coroborated by Abul Fadl because I trust him totally when it comes to the Aqidah / Opinions of Ibn Taymiyah - and Ibnul Qayyim - and thus the ‘Salafi’ School of thought -
Also, I would like to limit the salafi school of thought verdicts to the scholars that came before the era of Shaikh Ibn Baaz, Shaikh Salman Al Awdah, because I believe this era has many salafis that do not cling to the way of Ibn Taymiyah and the scholars of Najd in general.
Sas
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:02 pm
As Salaam Aaykum Wa Rahamtullah,
May Allah HAve Mercy on you.
I cant believe you bro, alhamdulillah, you are now searching for truth, I was heavily involved in thsi stuff about 2 years ago, and thsi kinda tor me apart and i finally came to a conclusion and I stick with it, and I can with certainty say that I believe in sucha nd such and aint no doubt about it. And my certainty is a bit of a thanx to the tablighi speeches about eeman and yaqeen, and that is what i wanted, I wanted eeman,a nd i wanted yaqeen inthat eeman. And I thank Allah for guiding me to it.
“Lets start with something that can make me a kaafir according to the Salafi School of thought, and go from there - since obviosuly that is the most important.”
Read SHaykh bin Baz’s The Authentic Creed and that which nullifies it. This should have Quranic verses that shoudl make it clear for the things that makes one a kaafir and leave islam - http://www.allaahuakbar.net/aqeedah/tawheed/invalidators_of_islam.htm
well for the rest of your post, i think it has bee n sufficiently answered IN the IN forums in the Debate section by al Harrani, i dont think i need to repeat myself. And think it definitely meets your criteria.
also treat yourself as if you ar eint he place of a non muslim, what do yout ell this guy about ISlam that is opposed from his belief, for example catholics, the have intermediaries that they go to their graves and ask them to intercede on their behalf to God. Just replace the Prophet (SAW)’s name in these statements of invoking the dead with invoking say Jesus(by soem christians) or invoking St. So and so. This si the exact shirk islam is opposed to and the other types of shirk is less common.
Allah Knows Best
October 24th, 2006 at 12:34 am
allahu akbar.net (depsite the name and may Allah forgive them) is not a reliable site at all
October 24th, 2006 at 1:24 am
Shaikh Ibn Baz did not come before Ibn Taymiyah, so I can not accept his statements about what is and what is not kufr.
Sas
October 24th, 2006 at 1:24 am
wa alaikum as-salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakatuhu
October 24th, 2006 at 8:08 pm
sas,
1. read this, its long:
http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/PrintMedia/Articles/AR00000008.aspx
You’d probably start doing ta’wil if what he reports of the companions is true.
2. I found several packets of “sugar in the raw” in my hoodie.
October 24th, 2006 at 8:33 pm
3. to be fair, here is the refutation:
http://www.spubs.com/sps/sp.cfm?subsecID=AQD06&articleID=AQD060009&articlePages=3
October 25th, 2006 at 1:29 am
not to mention this -
http://www.islaam.net/main/display.php?id=160&category=19
and maybe this -
http://www.islaam.net/main/display.php?id=346&category=37
and a few other, which i feel isnt necessary now, unles syou really want t read them.
Allah Knows Best
October 25th, 2006 at 1:30 am
any way…i only gave you the article of bin baz to you show you the Quranic verses…Allah Knows Best
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