I am coming from a Salafi background and lookng into the proofs for the way of the Soofies - specifically in calling Ar Rasul Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam at his grave to make Du’a to Allaah.
As you can see, the Salafis and the Salafi Jihadis will put aside my questions and focus on their agenda (propoganda if you will) and reuse to answer my questions - where as so far the two soofies I am learning from are more then willing to answer any questions I have. Honestly, I am even asking my Salafi questions to them since I am getting actual answers.
This brings up two things. Salafi Jihadis are total idiots - they believe every other Salafi group is incorrect, and here they have the chance to patiently sit and call to their Dawah, and would probably effect many people but they give up when I ask a question they deem irrelevant.
You can’t get them to talk to anyone but themselves - they have no idea how to call people to their way - I am a better caller to their way then they are.
And Salafis just baby you, as if you have no idea what your talking about -
Ironically enough they have so much reverance for following the way of the Salaf, but even in the most simple of issues - they are hard pressed to find a Salaf for their beliefs before Ibn Taymiyah/Ibnul Qayyim -Â Soofies are to - don’t get me wrong, but they don’t baby me - and they treat me with respect and point me in directions I can actually get answers.
But i can not rememember the last time any Salafi Jihadi came to me, and tried to get me to accept their views in a nice calm fashion with proofs, etc. It’s always, he is a kaafir, he’s a murjee, jihad is this and everyone else is a sell out - who knows, maybe its even true. But no one is going to figure that out from the way they act.
Oh yea, they are quite silly as well - they are doing all of this in the name of Dawah, but if they really were - they would definitely try harder to show me that they are willing to answer my questions - firstly, because I am already:
1. A known Salafi for a long time, so I have proven my sincerity towards the teachings of Ibn Raymiyah
2. Good Friends with some of them
3. Have a LARGE circle of influence, and I am close friends to their Opponent Abul Layth and would be able to talk to him were my beliefs different then him
4. There are 3k people daily at least who are exposed to Salafi teachings on IN, that could easily become 3k people exposed to Soofie teachings if I was able to convince those around me (and I’d like to think I am pretty damn good at that)
So they are wasting their time with each other, and if no one is going to answer my questions except soofies, and I am convinced of it, I will of course call to what I believe in and as of now, my closest friends,  are all kuffar now since we all have shakk about this issue - which if you have doubt about, your also pretty much a kaafir - or on your ay towards being one.
If they ‘really’ sincerely cared about their Dawah, they would go out of their way to answer my questions with hikmah. But nope, its pettiness - who can quote the most this and the most that, and no answers at all - all answers are like: “Uh Duh Sas, I thought you believed in the Quran or Sunnah” - well Duh, I do.
I will crack up if Soofies end up being correct, and I end up becoming a caller to the way of the soofies. I already know at least 10 or so people that are waiting for me to formulate my beliefs so that I can impart it into them - and if they agree, they will follow - but they also have given up on Al Harrani and Abul Fadl as actually being able to provide any of the answers we need.
Relevant Threads on IN:
http://talk.islamicnetwork.com/showthread.php?t=11370
http://talk.islamicnetwork.com/showthread.php?t=11287
I even offered in my limited knowledge to debate one of them - to actually hope/see if he could prove me wrong, but hes much more interested in writing essays about someone who I do not even learn from - yes it is true he opened the doors for me, but there are individuals, scholars, daees who have been following the path a long time before Abul Layth, and those are the people I am learning from -
Secondly, I have my own learning style anyway-
Sas
October 25th, 2006 at 4:37 pm
I’d like to give props to my wife actually because she takes the time out to answer my questions (since she to, while not Salafi, does have some reservations about some of the soofie stuff).
So she does take the time out to cast doubts in a way that works - and i inch a bit closer towards what I have always believed.
Sas
October 25th, 2006 at 8:59 pm
Anyway it’s boring now
October 25th, 2006 at 10:13 pm
find someone else to ask from the sj camp, don’t let the character of two sj’s automatically make you come to the conclusion that the ’sufis’ are right
and
about all of the name calling and mud slinging coming from the sj’s, aren’t you seeing the same on the other side of the fence?
October 25th, 2006 at 10:21 pm
My doors are open, I will keep reading and if anything is there I will come accross it I am sure in shaa Allaah.
I won’t take their words for it, but I can label them - the only group I won’t criticize for sure is Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah.
I am trying not to name call, if I did, can you please let me know where so I can amend it and apologize for it.
And I have tons and tons of reservations about soofies - but I still have not concluded if they are valid yet, so I am quiet - one big example off the top of my head is whirling dirvishes, and ibn arabi, and laila LOL -
I consider myself an expert, a scholar even of the Salafi school of thought, so I feel I can be brazen about what I say about them, since even as of right now, technically I am still a ‘Salafi’
Sas
October 26th, 2006 at 1:59 am
everybody’s lost their plot. Btw, soofies have their fair share of name calling and takfeer, in case you don’t know. It doesn’t really show in the west. But your soofie buddies (especially from barelwi background) have always traditionally considered “deobandis” as heretics; infact they even label deobandis “wahhabis” which is funny because deobandis are hardcore maturidi hanafis, this is just one example. Then within the ranks of soofiyah you have divisions. Like if you follow one tariqat you are forbidden to follow another one…it’s just that you don’t see it. And yes i would give it to soofies that they know how to talk to you (rather decpetively) and coax you to the extent where they make compromises just to make sure that you join their ranks…..
October 26th, 2006 at 2:11 am
I assumed as much,
But i am more interested in it from a historical/scholastic approach.
I.e. I could really care less about Shaikh Ibn baaz, it is Ibn Taymiyah and his teachings I am after when I was salafi.
So if I become soofie, Ill be more interested in the actual old school scholars from Soofiyah and not so much the groups/scholars of today -
I am actually glad to know there is influx inside of that group, so if I do become soofie, I have plenty of groups etc. to mock.
My friends are not coaxing me into it however though, everytime I ask a question, i get an answer - that is all - they are not out to ‘do dawah to me’ I dont think anyone tries with me =) But if i have questions, I get honest answers - and thats how I prefer learning when I am just discovering something. Later on you can point me to ‘how to become a scholar’ in whatever it is I am doing, and i can do that at my own leisure.
Sas
October 26th, 2006 at 2:12 am
And if everyone has lost the plot, no biggie - back to my original plan.
Ill start my own school of thought when I discover whats right. And make it so mac daddy that nothing will be left unanswered from the important things.
Sas
October 26th, 2006 at 3:06 am
It depends on how you define an “honest answer”. What may seem to you as an honest answer maybe a a sugar coated and watered down and impartial reality; all the different groups have employed this tactic.
As for creating your own school, although highly unlikely, but if you do come up with one, I will go out of my way to make sure that I don’t join, lol.
The groups that already exist have failed us miserably, salafis (any kind) are a big mess. Soofies have for centuries (like catholicism) controlled the masses by subduing them into blind, gutless and unquestioned following…it’s same difference.
October 26th, 2006 at 3:09 am
Meaning if I ask about these issues, I won’t get a sugar coated version - ill get it as it is.
Each and every time -
So if soofies are wrong and salafis are wrong / well - I don’t know what other major groups out there that could be right.
And i am a firm believer that there is at least one group that is following the Salaf.
Sas
October 26th, 2006 at 4:34 pm
i dont get it,really why are u serching for the sufi side when you have been on the truth for so long. just think about 1 thing..is this what the sahaba was upon?? are the sufi way what the prophet saws taught the ummah?
yes there will always be one group on haq, and look around in the world not just the internet world but the real world, whose the group making changes? what group is shaking the ground under the kuffar?? even the kuffar promote sufism, isnt that enough for you`?
make duaa that Allaah will show you the real path thats the way a friend of mine accepted islam. if youre really sincere Allaah will show you.
October 26th, 2006 at 5:34 pm
the kuffar promote sufism as something separate from the rest of islam–or maybe the pantheistic elements of some of the extreme sects.
i doubt they’d promote you if you were a super sufi murid zaahid and also implemented islam FULLY.
and concerning all of the groups “failing us”, as nuqtah pointed out, then who is on the truth?
October 26th, 2006 at 6:20 pm
I was on what I knew to be truth, and now I am beginning there may be more to the truth then i realized.
So I am seeking out the truth.
Sas
October 27th, 2006 at 12:31 am
different groups have elements of truth in them, we can’t deny that but none are perfect.
October 27th, 2006 at 3:28 am
u know its like what sheikh abu mus’ab as-soori FA said, evry group have realized theres a problem in the ummah, but they all want to correct this mistake their way and thats why its failing, the only real way is the way of the prophet saws and the sahaba, how did they spread islam?
u say u hate the SJ but who are the SJ’s following? they dont blindfollow a certain sheikh or hide from all the other groups like the madaakhila they dont mingle with other groups.
maybe you’ve seen some on the net but u cant say everyones alike.
look at the manhaj of the 4 mathaahib, the taabieen and the salaf that every group claim to follow and look at what group in our time is the closest to them. im not saying this bcouz im a SJ but just think about it.
October 27th, 2006 at 3:38 am
and u know what sas, u say that if u end up following the soofi tareeqah you will call people to it! why do u want to mislead people and bear their sins on judgement day?
remember imam ahmad when the whole thing about the quran being created a man came out to him and said, if u slip all the people will follow you and you will be held responsible for all their sins on judgement day.
think about it sas, think about the big responsibility that hangs on your shoulders..
October 27th, 2006 at 7:53 am
Uh - if I felt Soofiyah was not the correct way, I would not call to it.
I have not made up my mind yet.
But I suspect Ahlus Sunnah wal Jammath is more encompassing then what the Salafis will lead you to believe.
Sas
October 27th, 2006 at 1:05 pm
There is a general AhlUSSunnah and specific…..
Genral - opposed to the sheeah, or they say or claim to follow the sunnah.
Specific - the saved sect, firqat an najiyya, ta’ifatul mansoorah.
some of your arguments(in general) soudn liek me 3-4 years ago….I used to sympathize with the barelwees, i grew with around them. I had to face it one day, theyre messed up.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:15 pm
I am talking about the specific one. the Saved Sect.
Sas
October 28th, 2006 at 12:25 am
We dont look at personalities to determine Ahl USSunnah, we look at the beliefs to determine Ahl Us Sunnah.
The personalities that determine Ahl us Sunnah are the Prophet (SAW), and the companions.
October 28th, 2006 at 7:24 pm
One last thing sas.
You said, when u talk to soofis they respect u but the SJ’s only care about themselves etc, but we have seen different sides from u and how uve been disrespectful to shuyoukh even though i dont agree with these shuyoukh and swearing and a lot of other stuff, so thats why maybe some ppl dont take u serious.but the sufis how are u talking to them, have they seen the stuff uve been writing on IN?
if u want ppl to respect u and give u attention the one u need to accept the truth start thinking about the face ur showing on IN is having a BIG thing to do with it.
not that i say that no one should use time on u cuz the way uve been acting but i hope u understand the point-
and abul fadl adressed u with respect and gave u daleel for everything so i dont see why u wrote what u did here..
and u say u want to find the saved group, thats what the prophet, sahaba was on..so did they do any of the stuf the soofis are doing?? subhanAllah its so onvious
anyways may Allaah guide us to what pleases Him
October 28th, 2006 at 9:04 pm
First of all, who are you? its not from any school of thought that you use anonymity -
Secondly, I don’t care if people respect me or not - but if they do not, I will complain about it - that’s all.
Thirdly, SJS not caring about anyone else but themselves has nothing to do with me - What I mean is they do not go to other boards and call people to their way - case in point, people like Abul Fadl - he is content on sj sites - Wether you agree, or disagree - thats different.
If its obvious to you, I am glad for you - its not as obvious to me -
Oh yea, I never asked Abul Fadl for evidence - I asked him a question he did not know the answer to and he responded with a bunch of other stuff.
Sas
October 29th, 2006 at 4:15 am
These debates and differences have been going on for a very long time. I myself used to be a Salafi (and those who know me know that I was influential in my circle). I used to be a Madkhali, then left that for the so called Sj stuff(even though I was uncomfortable with some of their stuff too). One of the things that led me out of that was the same thing that led me out of being a Madkhali which is seeing how much of reality has been brushed under the rug and not admitted to.
I think people are starting to see that salafis of all sorts are making alot of claims that dont represent reality or are sugar coated to justify their existence.
Yes, the same thing happens with those who ascribe themselves to Tasawwuf, but where are the level headed people who have their views, but are fair enough to admit that their group isnt nessicarily right in everything.
When speaking about Sufis and Tasawwuf, most people are grossly uninformed. They are either parroting the words of the orientalists or the salafis.
I have not found very many people who ascribe to salafiyah even willing to admit that their views on tasawwuf might be incorrect. I mean, how can you have a dialogue with someone who already decided that nothing will chage their views? That is why people mostly post on forums that they already agree with.
Is there anyone who can honestly say that they are willing to listen to the other side and see if they have a point? I dont mean reading what they say with the sole intent of deconstructing their word so victory for ones group can be achieved.
And this applies to everyone, but salafis more specifically. This is because whether you would like to admit it or not, a huge number of Sufis from the west are former salafis. They have seen the salafi side and maybe (like me) even called to it and refuted its opponents. Yes, there are some Sufis that became salafis, but most of them seem to be those who were caught up in a brain numbing culturaly mixed up folk Islam that was inherited from their country or parents etc.
October 29th, 2006 at 6:05 pm
IN mods are tyrants. This explains everything. This is the answer to all of the univerese’s mysteries. Case closed.
October 29th, 2006 at 6:22 pm
I am pretty sure IN is tolerant to soofies as well as salafis.
So tyrants we may be, but at least both sides can come and speak what they think is right.
Sas
October 29th, 2006 at 6:58 pm
No they are tyrant precisely for banning me unjustly lol.
November 1st, 2006 at 1:50 am
Es’Salaamu Alaikum va’Rehmatullahi va’Barakata-HOO!
i new that sooner or later i would run into your wretched propoganda SAS……things were going too normal…..i hated paltalk and now here you are!
somehow i run into your blog at 1:09am on wednesday…..what the hell….its like my worthless life comes come full circle to haunt me…..
Basically, after reading your rant or whatever it was i just have a few suggestions….feel free to try any of them. they are as follows:
1) You could just give up and become a damn sufi…i mean, why the hell not? The are snazzy dressers and all the chicks like ‘em…you’d fit right in. HAMZAH YUSUF here i come!!!
2) You could join Jamaat Tableegh….only please don’t come to Virginia on your 40 days of dawah …we have enough crap here already.
3) You could go to Yemen and live with Sheikh ul Mashaaykh Rabee al Madkhalee in a desert with his students and a few million scorpions. I wonder who would bite first…his students or the actual scorpions?!?! (i think Rabee lives in Dammaj….a few hours outside of Sana’a)
4) You could join the Peace Corps and go heal sick babies in Cambodia.
5) You could sit around an simply eat Gulaab Jamun
6) You could become a chef on Food Network…Die Bobby Flay…DIE!
7) You could become a White Supremacist (hey, i dont like these guys either…but at least you would have some job security….think about it). Oh yeah, you would also have to chemically bleach your skin…..ouch….but the thought makes me laugh!!!!
Take TAP DANCING lessons….it kicks a** … trust me!
9) You could become a secret Government Informant! Hey, think about it, sufis would love you — and so would Madkhalees. After all, Madkhalees love the USA as well. You are so in!
10) Finally (i hope i saved the best for last), you could put your ram your head into a heated toaster oven and proclaim that you are a “MARTYR for the CAUSE”…i dont know what the hell that means…but is sure sounds damn funny!
Please take a pic of your head in a toaster oven akhi….it sounds marvelous!
In the final analysis, i find it quite humorous that your are now calling people to the way of the Soofiyah…lol…keep up the good work (i guess)…
~anti
(oh yeah…akhi, you kinda look like the abandoned child of CAT STEVENS….i think that is sooo cool! Now you are that much closer to being a full fledged Soofee….sweeeeeeeeeeet….)
January 16th, 2007 at 1:24 am
i am salafi from IRAN! and i came to salafiyah because of the purity that they are uppon (orthodox islam). that they adhere to the sunnah and are upright on the tawheed of al islam. they hold fast to the book and the sunnah, and subdue the inovations of the inovaters, who bring about to corruupt this deen of al islam. they strive nite and day to clairify to the people that which the believers should be uppon, in matters of tawheed and aqeedah… so the question that now arises is who is a salafi and who is a jihadi and is there any corilation between the two. That is, is the call to salafiyah a call to extreemism and upright terrorism? is it a call to that kharji jihadi takfiri methodoligy or manahaj. or is it a call to that which the sahaba were uppon. there is no doubt that in this day everyone claims to be uppon the truth. is any body going to come to you and say that he is on a path to the hell fire? you say that you come from a salafi backround but it seems that you really dont know who a salafi is. you attach the jihadi’s to the salafi which shows the confusion that you are uppon. it seems like people don’t know who is a salafi and what salafiyah really is. it seems like people dont know the difference between tawheed and shirk. and we seek refuge with allah from that. so if you are sincere in seeking the truth then pray to allah to guide your hart to the truth. there is only 1 salafis. there is only 1 ahlussunah wal jamah that is. there is only one creed, 1 islam, 1 path, 1 way to allah. how can a tablighi and a deobandi and abrailywi, and a chisti, and a nakshabandi, and a she’a, all be ahlussuna wal jammah when they all have differing beliefs about allah, and how to whorship allah… did the sahaba have all seperate beliefs about allah? did one sahaba go to the grave and 1 sahaba go to allah? so how can all these opposite paths go to allah. allah sent us how many prophets and messengers to call us to this one path of tawheed. so there is a lot of people today who say they are salafi and are really not salafi… and people judge them buy what they say so if they say they are salafi and they call to terrorism they think that salafiyah is a call to terrorism. so if people say that they are muslim and call people to terrorism does that mean that allah and prophet mohammed (saw) called to terrorism. just because someone sais something, it doesnt change the rality of what he is uppon…
a hypocrit can say he is a muslim, but does that really make him a muslim?? so we need to whatch out for these kinds of people… i suggest you go to these sites here.. and if nobody can answer your question at these site then maby you can look for some books from this site.. try http://www.spubs.com, http://www.salaf.com,www.troid.org has a nice website with info and bookstore. these are real salafi sites and not some poser salafi sit… and i hope that what i said can be of some help. may allah fogive me for anything wrong i may have said un knowingly. and may allah guide all of us muslims to the truth including me. and may allah open all of our hearts to see the truth, because he may be keeping are hearts from seeing the truth.
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